Peptide Therapy Explained - What It Is, Who It's For, and What to Watch Out For

ASHLEY If it's coming from somebody online with a discount code. Probably not a good idea. Okay. Even if they have a code attached to it, that piece of paper doesn't necessarily mean anything by itself.

MELISSA Health and wellness is confusing. There's a new trend every week. Everyone's got an opinion, and half the time you can't tell what's legit and what's just good marketing. And we get it. We're in it too. Welcome to Dialed In Health. I'm Melissa Goodwin. Every episode we bring in the people who actually do this work. Providers, practitioners. The experts who see clients and patients every day.

MELISSA We ask the questions you'd ask if you were sitting across from them, so you can find the right people, make better decisions, and feel confident about what's out there. Whether it's peptides, gut health, water quality, ADHD, biohacking, or something you've never heard of. We're covering it. So let's get into it. Let's get dialed in.

MELISSA If you've seen peptides all over TikTok, Facebook groups, Instagram and wondered what exactly is a peptide? Is it something that's for me or are they even safe today? This episode is made just for you. We are sitting down with Ashley Wagner, the owner of Vitalis Movement and Wellness, and Ashley is on a ton of research. She has one of the peptide therapy clinics here in Sioux Falls. Actually, in Harrisburg is where we are. And, you have a practice that's individualized, medically supervised. And also they make sure that everything is sourced properly. So I'm excited to have you on the show.

ASHLEY Welcome, Ashley. Oh, so.

MELISSA Glad you're on dialed in health. Why don't you tell us a little bit about, you know, how you got started with Vitalis Movement and Wellness? Before we get into just the peptides, tell us a little bit about your business and all the things that you do here.

ASHLEY Yeah. So, small town South Dakota girl raised on a farm, about an hour from here. So throughout my nursing history, I graduated from nursing school in 2013. I have worked in neurosurgery, urgent care, and then just, it's kind of one of those weird situations where once you get in school, everybody asks, like, when are you going on to NP school? I said, never. Zero desire to be an NP and then next thing I knew, I was in NP school. And then after that and then school, like, oh, you're in a private practice state, when are you going to open up your own business? I was like, absolutely not. Never zero desire for my own business. And, well, here we are.

ASHLEY But just kind of like through my research, through things, I was just kind of seeing different things that I was like, I don't know if I agree with that. And also, that's not how I want to do things. And I didn't really want to be regulated or told how to do my job, when it wasn't something I believed in. So kind of with the whole peptide thing and how I got going, there was a little bit more on the side of being natural, like, I've been kind of on that crunchy lifestyle for about eight years now. And then as for Vitalis, it just kind of started that way. So my husband and I, when we moved our family back from Rapid City, where we lived for almost eight years, kind of just fell in that realm of not really wanting to work for anybody. We wanted to kind of be our own boss, run our business how we wanted to. So we kind of like, collaborate, like, let's see. I'm doing more like the natural, functional medicine type stuff. He's doing more pain type stuff. Kind of really started figuring out how these things can really collide. And then that's where Vitalis was born, I guess.

ASHLEY So really, it comes from the true meaning - Vitalis - the definition is life giving. So the whole goal and purpose of our clinic is just to give you your life back.

MELISSA You do a lot of things here at Vitalis. Let's talk a little bit more about peptides. So what exactly is a peptide and what is it doing?

ASHLEY Yeah. So peptides are just little short chains of amino acids. So what we're doing is using these little signal messengers to send messages to the body to stimulate it to do something. So I like to think of it as basically, you think of it as a text message, like you're texting your brain, telling your body what to do, like, you know, depending on which pathway we're going down, what peptide we're using, it's going to signal different things so we can signal it to like release growth hormones, appetite suppression, muscle tissue recovery type stuff. Yeah. It just kind of depends on where we're at.

MELISSA So how is the peptide different than the hormone?

ASHLEY So peptides and hormones act very differently on the body. So peptides are very direct and they can actually penetrate the cell membrane. Whereas hormones are a lot more broad. So you think of it like like a broad spectrum antibiotic. Like we know you have an infection of some sort. Right. We're just going to send you this antibiotic. It covers x, y, z bacteria. Right. That's kind of what a hormone is like. We show up in a hormone we're covering you know maybe it's estrogen progesterone testosterone like whatever. But it's also dripping down trickling to like thyroid hormone. Vitamin D is a hormone like some of those types of things. Insulin is a hormone. So we're kind of it's more of what we call like an umbrella effect. Okay. With hormones where peptides are very direct and we're signaling one specific pathway to do one specific job.

MELISSA So the number one question on Google when you start to like type in peptides is which peptide is the best for weight loss.

ASHLEY Yes I I'm I get that a lot. Yeah. Honestly not a great like Google question in general. Okay. Because there is no one peptide that is great for everybody for weight loss in general. We all have very different lifestyles, different bodies, different histories. So there's really not one that you can necessarily say is the best. Okay. Really how you need to break it down is why you need to dive deeper. Like, what's the reason that we're not losing weight? And that's really where that comprehensive lab panel comes in, where we're testing hormones, vitamin deficiencies, seeing how the thyroid is doing all of that type of stuff so that we can determine what the hold up is, especially in somebody who's doing proper exercise, nutrition.

ASHLEY But really, once you start conversing with people, sometimes it's like, no, you're doing too many HIIT workouts or, you know, there's just different things there where we're not always maximizing what we can do. There are certain ones that, yes, will stimulate like and that's where we kind of figure out, like, is it a food noise problem. So okay. And that's a specific peptide that's going to help more with like food noise is an appetite suppressant. Is it more of an energy problem. Are you not losing weight because you're not moving because you don't have energy. So when you see is that side of things, is it an inflammatory issue, like do you just have a lot of inflammation and toxin buildup that we need to move fluid? So it kind of just depends.

MELISSA So if there's someone because I feel like there's, you see something about a peptide, they, they call you and say, hey, Ashley, I want to do. And they all sound like Star Trek names to me, like BPC, BP, whatever, blah, blah blah. 157 on like, how do people remember this? First of all. But if somebody calls you, says, can I get that peptide? What's what's your first thing that you do with them?

ASHLEY Yes. We still need to sit down and do that consult. I do need to know what medications are on, what other supplements they're taking, if they've tried anything before. Can you inject yourself? You know, different little things like that which peptides come in different forms. So that's not always a big I mean, it is kind of a whole booklet. We can get around different things. Okay. But really it's we need to schedule that 30 minute little consult to just chitchat like, what is, what are your goals? Why do you want the BPC 157?

MELISSA Right. So what are all the things that you might use a peptide for?

ASHLEY Oh, man. Well, with there being so many of them, there are lots of different things. I would say kind of the most common things, there's anxiety, depression, there's ADHD, there's weight loss, there's body composition. There's kind of the glow up hair, skin and nail type things that we can do. Gosh. It's it's a little tendon ligament repair type. Okay. Gut health. We can help with heal the gut lining with peptides.

MELISSA So this is a question. How does the peptide. So you just inject it, like, in your leg?

ASHLEY So they're all subcutaneous. I think you have different injection sites. So usually it's the most common is subcutaneously in the abdomen. Okay. You can also do back of the arm or outside of upper thigh. Yes.

MELISSA So has nowhere to go. Like if you have like a shoulder pain and you're like, here's the peptide. How does it know to get to your shoulder?

ASHLEY So that's where it depends on which peptide we're using. Okay. So if we're actually using something like BPC 157 that is utilized to help with muscle, tendon, ligament repair, that one we would specifically inject to the muscle that we are targeting. Okay. So you can inject them like more on the abdomen is more of a systemic effect. But in the like if you have a specific location then we're directing it right there. But again, really because it's a little tiny messenger sending signals to the body. Sure. You're sending it by putting it in the body. The body recognizes it because it's already knows it's natural. So it uses that then to stimulate that pathway in the body and direct it where it needs to go.

MELISSA So there's lots of different uses for it. How long does it last? Like how often do I have to inject myself or what does that, you know. Yeah I mean every day is it every week. So that.

ASHLEY Depends. Some are daily, some are weekly, some you cycle on and off. Ideally in my practice, nobody is on a peptide long term because again, we're really our goal is just to stimulate the body to do its job. And then we don't need to worry about it anymore. Right? As soon as the body like, remembers to do its job, like, okay, this is how we do it, then it's all taken care of. I mean, once in a while you do need to go back, and do things. So there are certain ones that you might do only 1 or 2 days a week, and you do that like once a quarter, you know, certain like more detoxing type things or inflammatory type things, more the go anti-aging type things, are a little bit more spread out and doing the more quietly. Those aren't ones that you can do regularly, but like BPC, for example, is one that you would do daily for a period of time. But then you do need to take a break from them, but they're not something that you should be on long term. However, no.

MELISSA So tell me about like the growth hormone the human. So that's a that's a peptide. Is this or tell me about that. Yeah this is a big thing. Evidently I don't know enough about it. So tell me what are people using it for. And you know the good bad and the ugly about it.

ASHLEY Yes. So the peptides that we use for like growth hormone, we're not actually injecting growth hormone okay. You're injecting something that we are signaling the body to release its own growth hormone okay okay. So that's where this one is very specific on the timing and how you do it.

MELISSA So the text message is actually sending a message to the body to do the pituitary okay.

ASHLEY To stimulate release natural releasing growth hormone okay. So your body shouldn't actually really subtle pulses of growth hormone at night. Typically around 10 p.m.. So in this one specifically, you need to inject it before 10 p.m.. Ideally. And then what it's going to do is it's really a well-rounded one, especially if we're kind of stacking things, to help with sleep recovery, body composition. It kind of helps build muscle burn, fat type of thing. However, they can also be a little bit dangerous, like this is one that you really do need to monitor your lab work very closely on. Okay. Specifically males. In the males they can increase their prolactin levels, which will actually cause some sexual dysfunction. So males, if they get too much, too fast or too high doses or anything like that, they can complain of not being able to finish or their recovery time like in between orgasms is a lot longer. Okay. So it's not that they have a dysfunction where they can't perform, it's just that they can't finish. And that can just be very debilitating, especially after eating and just unsafe. Like, you don't want to have those high levels, so you have to be really careful with them. They're not necessarily for everybody and just say, practice dosing.

MELISSA So what do people love about that, peptide that signals the growth hormone. Why are they why is that such a big deal?

ASHLEY Because you feel amazing. I know it's all around. Well, body like it is. People just in general. Yeah, I know that. They just feel so much better. Their skin looks better. They have way more energy. They are. Workouts are going further. Like you can work out and lift twice as much as you maybe could before, but you're not noticing the soreness because your recovery is better. Okay. So just kind of all around, you get much better sleep. So then that helps with your recovery too. Like so kind of all comes full circle really.

MELISSA So it doesn't make you actually grow.

MELISSA Quick break. This episode is brought to you by Vitality Growth Labs. If you're a health or wellness practice and you're wondering why your phone isn't ringing the way it should be, Vitality Growth Labs builds the systems to fix that. Get found, build trust, fill your calendar. Authority stacking, videos that connect with your clients, real tools, strategy and execution that results in real revenue. Visit Vitality Growth Labs dot com or check the provider directory at Vitality Growth Labs dot com slash the directory to find a trusted wellness provider near you. All right, back to the show.

MELISSA So for women, especially women, and we're starting the journey into maybe perimenopause or menopause. How are peptides helpful for them or how do you is it peptides versus hormone replacement therapy. Peptides peptides with hormone replacement therapy. How does that work.

ASHLEY Yeah. So I guess kind of in that phase of women's life, a big thing that I hear them complaining about is that and that abdominal, Oh, yeah. Weight gain, you know, the troubles with sleeping, maybe that because of hot flashes, night sweats, or maybe that's just they're just not sleeping anymore. They can fall asleep because they're exhausted, and then they're up at three in the morning. Maybe that's more cortisol issue than it really is, you know, sex hormone type thing. But, so really with the peptide side of things on that, I'm really starting to address more those symptoms and those problems, then I am actually like the hormonal side of things like, I think it's very different though, like hormone therapy versus peptide therapy, just because peptide therapy is again, more that direct, like we're treating the symptoms and those types of things. We are hormones. Yes. If they have a true deficiency, sort of their basic symptoms are the hot flashes, the night sweats, the visceral dryness, all of that type of stuff. Then they probably do have a true hormone deficiency need, you know, like a replacement therapy. Okay. However that looks like for them. But from the peptide side, we're really just addressing the symptoms, which is giving them that overall well feeling, which then can target those other symptoms. Because really when you're giving those peptides, you're not sending direct pathways. It's not necessarily stimulating like hormone replacement, but overall your body's functioning better. So then you're feeling better.

MELISSA Got it. So tell me about the stacks. Some of these stacks also have crazy days. So what is this? What is a peptide stack? And, you know, tell me how you approach that. And you know kind of how you navigate that with patients.

ASHLEY Yeah. So peptide stacking is honestly I call it peptide math. So you know girl math right. Where we get to pay for anything I should do that. Like I wish.

MELISSA That workflow right doesn't seem to work for me. I haven't figured it out either, but I think doc has this.

ASHLEY So whenever I learn from them. But, I consider stacking peptide math. It's like one plus one equals four. In a safe manner of course. So sometimes what can be beneficial is stacking is we are directing more than one pathway at once. So if we get somebody come in like say the perimenopause or the menopause and it's like, okay, we got the whole gamut of problems, right? You know, we can't sleep. We're gaining weight. We have no energy. Our thoroughbreds out of whack, we're on all these prescriptions, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's kind of like, oh boy, where do we start? Okay, so now we have all these different pathways that need to be activated that have been not activated for so long that we've kind of created a little bit of a train wreck. What's nice about stacking is you can actually use smaller doses of stuff, but get more bang for your buck. Okay. So we stack certain things to target certain pathways at work together. So a big stack is like your CJC up a Morlin. And you can stack that with BPC one, five seven, or you can also do like see Jesse from Maryland with like prodigy tied to kind of get that body composition back would also accelerate the weight loss part, if that's kind of what they're looking for and what their body needs. What's nice about it is, yeah, we're getting the best of both worlds. Really?

MELISSA I don't know how you keep all these names straight in your head. Like, it is so crazy. Lots of reasons. Yeah.

ASHLEY The problem is, stacking can also be very dangerous. So a lot of these stacks, are, like, the ones that seem to get used the most. Anyways, are all of them that drive like insulin, glucose, like, I mean, we hear the insulin resistance, but worse. But we're buzzword sorry all the time. Yeah. So people see, oh, it lowers my glucose. It's got to be good for me. Right? Right. Well, next thing you know, you're on three different things that all are affecting your glucose. Now, we're really dangerous because now we're having hypoglycemic, like, our blood sugars getting too low, and we're worried that's dangerous.

MELISSA You pass out or whatever that. Yeah, you can pass out.

ASHLEY You can start having some really medical complications, too. Okay. You gotta watch your liver or your kidney, like, different things this year. Like, what are we stimulating? What are we not stimulating? And also, when you're doing too many stacks or too high of doses, you're getting, like, too much of a buildup of a certain amino acid or peptide in your body. And then that can be dangerous also, because then your body isn't able to actually like go down those pathways anymore because it's you're seeing too much and it's like, well, hold on, sir. No, we're essentially overdosed.

MELISSA So what I'm hearing and what's interesting is I see influencers all over the place that sell. I don't know if it's peptides, maybe it is peptides, but they're like, send me or whatever. I'll give you the code for my GLP one or my peptide stack or whatever that might be. And, you know, people order those off of TikTok and Instagram and Reddit threads and all of that, but they're not necessarily measuring what's really going on in their body. So that's kind of terrifying.

ASHLEY Yes, it is completely terrifying. The scary part with that is, is, yeah, they don't know sources necessarily. We don't know what's actually in that vial or what, how concentrated it is. If it's diluted or, Yeah. You just don't really know what you're getting in. That's really scary. And then at that point, you have no medical oversight, like, you don't know how it's being dosed. You don't know what the contraindications are like. Certain peptides are country indicated for certain people for certain reasons. Even FDA approved, like DLP ones have contraindications, like medullary cancer or thyroid cancer. Like you cannot take a job you want if you have a family history or a history of that, sense. People probably don't know that. So and obviously the influencer posting that doesn't know that you have that history, that's where really this medical oversight is really important to know the history, know what things can go together, what medications are contraindications and all of that type of stuff.

MELISSA Yeah. If you don't have labs done, you never really like I would imagine people just probably order in like, hey, it's work in Korea. Until it doesn't, I may order something else, right? Which is, you know, just because it's national doesn't necessarily mean it's always you can still overdose on natural things, correct?

ASHLEY I mean, different ways react. I kind of say the same thing with like just because something's organic doesn't mean it's for everybody, right? Right. Like you could eat too many Brazil nuts and overdose on selenium. These are they're raw and organic and they are supposed to be healthy. Well that doesn't mean that you can't do them wrong or or.

MELISSA Have you allergic to it. Who knows?

ASHLEY Yeah. All I have to like they said, at the same attitude with peptides, I guess.

MELISSA So if someone wants to start, they say like, hey, you know, like we talked a little bit earlier about somebody calls and says, I want BP 157. Your, your first step is to come in and do a lab and, you know, if they were like, hey, I just, I really want to lose weight and I want great skin, you know, what do you top. What's that process was the time length of the the lab and how long you have to wait before you actually are able to start doing the injections.

ASHLEY Yeah. So, that's gonna depend on the peptide because not all peptides require labs, and they really just depends on which ones we're really looking for. So that's great. We do that first 30 minute consult just to, determine what goals are, what we need. And that it depends on what we're taking a full medical history at that point too, like family history, personal history. What supplements are you on, what medications are you on? And then from there, that's when I can figure out kind of what your goals are, what you're dealing with. And then I'm kind of in my head already starting to figure out maybe what you need, so that I'm putting together a lab, you know, and then based on that, we get the labs drawn. So depending on what supplements they're on, you do need to be off certain supplements for a week before we can do some of these comprehensive lab panels. Otherwise, we get full size. So that you took a supplement this morning or last night, and then you come in this morning for a lab draw. That supplement might still be circulating in your blood stream. So then when I get those lab results, it's in a show that your vitamin D may maybe at 65, when realistically it's not. It's lower. You're getting false results. So I do require everybody to be off their supplements for about a week. And then after we get the lab results we need a week later to go over them and then finalize the plan. So really, we're looking probably about three weeks from start to first injection or go, I hope at that time is approximately the process.

MELISSA It feels very like on the like bleeding edge of things. But I'm assuming peptides have been around for a while. Are they? Yeah. We speak to the safety and legality.

ASHLEY Oh yeah. Peptides are super bright, have been around for quite a while. I mean, other countries have been utilizing them for a lot longer than us. And we do have some, you know, a list of FDA approved now, which is kind of nice. It makes the accessibility a little bit easier. That doesn't necessarily mean them safe or necessarily legal always either, depending on where you're getting them from. Okay, here, big things you really need to just pay attention to. First of all, is this coming from somebody online with a discount code? Probably not a good idea. Yeah. Okay. Even if they have a collar attached to it, that piece of paper doesn't necessarily mean anything by itself. You need to still have a reputable source of arms that's been around for a long time. I mean, a lot of these websites with the discount codes and stuff, it might be under this website today, but next month, all of a sudden you go to it and it's the website, it's gone and they'll say, coming soon, visit us over here. And then they have to like, send you somewhere else. That's a huge red flag. If they're being shut down for something, then there's they're obviously not doing something right. So that's what's coming from there. So just really making sure you have a good source. 503A cyber three B pharmacies. Yes. Our compounding, but they're compounded under like a special legal framework, that they have there's certain things that they have to follow that they have to report that they have hoops, that they have to jump through. To verify their products. And that's at the stuff. So that's where we really, know what we're getting. And that what is on the label is actually what's in the jar.

MELISSA So, you know, if you go to your traditional doctor and you say, like, I want some peptides, what will they typically tell you?

ASHLEY So typically because unless they're like an FDA approved one that they can write a script through, they would tell you they probably can't tell you all. Yeah. Also, most of your traditional, like, your primary care providers that aren't trained in them, so they I don't also know how to, like, prescribe them, dose them all of that check as well.

MELISSA So tell me about your training. What did you do to get, you know, get all of this information, know where to source things, know how to administer things, know how to navigate that with patients.

ASHLEY Yes. So I started just doing a lot of research by myself on like, reputable websites, like medical journals and websites and that type of stuff. So like a, like a nurse practitioner specific, certified course. Okay. On it did some more research. Started playing with them a little bit myself beforehand, so that I understood the process, how they make you feel when you inject them, what things? I notice you're in. My situation is not going to be the same as everybody. I'm not going to react the same as everybody. But then I can at least, like, relate to the patient and be able to tell them like, yeah, when I did it, this is what I noticed. Or yeah, that one might burn a little bit more than the next one or, you know, different things like that. But overall it does, just kind of gave me a good grasp on it. And then, I also when it came to like prescribing them or getting them in patients hands, I worked with, our South Dakota Board of Pharmacy. Well, I kind of starting with the board of nursing first, like, okay, what's legal here? Like, what can I do? What are we seeing coming up the pipeline? Like, what is legislators saying about these types of things? So I started with them. And then they referred me over to the Board of Pharmacology. So I was working with, some individuals there who were like, yes, from the whole, like dispensing side of things like, this is how you do it. And I mean, being a nurse, I've taught patients how to give themselves insulin injections and stuff like that. I'm very similar. I mean, we're using insulin needles. So I would teach them like, this is your syringe, this is what your dose looks like. Like this is what each mark on the syringe means. All my patients do, do self injection demonstrations in clinic before they are sent home with them. Okay. So I need to make sure you know what you're doing it. You're doing it right. You know, I get them, all their supplies are sharps containers, the proper disposal, everything is reviewed. Okay, how to store them? Everything like that. So that's all reviewed before they go home so that they go home completely confident, and they can just call me if they ever have a question. Like they're never alone in it or or for never having to feel like they have to resort to Google or anything like that for a mission to.

MELISSA How do I do that? Hands. So what if you don't like needles? So if you're like, yes.

ASHLEY So that can be a little bit of a barrier for some of them. Most peptides are not absorbable orally because they're those tiny chains of amino acids. They break down very, very easily. Okay. So most of them cannot stand to go to the stomach. The stomach acid just destroys them right away. And then they're never absorb. And that's a huge waste. So your absorption is always going to be best injected. There are some topicals, there are some nasal sprays. Again. Are they as great as the injections? No, but there are options and things that we can work around.

MELISSA Okay. Actually, I have a few true or false questions for you. You can tell me if these things are true or false. So as it relates to peptides, peptides are basically the same thing as steroids.

ASHLEY False. They act very differently on the body. So, peptides are amino acid chains where steroids are actually cholesterol derived molecules.

MELISSA Okay, here's another one. There's one peptide that works for everyone.

ASHLEY False. Everybody's physiology is different. Or is lifestyle is different.

MELISSA So, if it has a certificate of analysis, that means it's safe.

ASHLEY False. No, that does not verify their integrity, that they're sterile. Or really that what's in the vial matches that piece of paper that they're handing out.

MELISSA So how do you know if it is legitimately source.

ASHLEY Coming from a reputable pharmacy that has been around for a very long time.

MELISSA GLP ones like Ozempic. And we go to our peptides?

ASHLEY Partially, yes. They are derived from peptides, but the GOP ones are very heavily modified. So they are modified to actually lengthen their, duration basically. So, that's why those ones are only once a week.

MELISSA Instead, all peptides are injections. We did talk about this a little bit. I'm scared of needles so I can't use any tap types.

ASHLEY False. We can still get you topical nasal or you know, sometimes it's here. Let me just give you a quick little injection, see what it feels like. And most people are surprised by the fact that it doesn't hurt. You can't feel it. So do a little training. Sometimes people can get over that.

MELISSA Okay. Peptides are unregulated and illegal.

ASHLEY False. As long as they're coming from a pharmacy within the framework, you can get, you know, like A503, a pharmacy. We are writing prescriptions for them. So they're being dispensed to a specific patient, and that is very legal.

MELISSA Last one, I can double my dose and get better results.

ASHLEY Absolutely not. That is how we have medical errors. Bad side effects. That's where people can get sometimes a bad take on peptides, because of a bad side effect.

MELISSA So my last question is if you could have a billboard about peptides and you could put it up where people could could see it, what would your what would your billboards, their vote works say?

ASHLEY Okay. So I guess my biggest thing would be, they're not magic. You know, you need to have the right peptide for the right person. Right dose, right time.

MELISSA That's a bummer because I want something magical. So it's. Well, why don't you let us know for those that maybe want to get it, get a hold of you that are more interested in learning more about peptides, tell us where they can find you on the web and in person. Where where do they find Ashley? Bye. Tell us a little bit.

ASHLEY Yeah. So, we post a lot of information on our, Instagram. So that is, just @VitalisWellness.life. We also you can have like a book now button for online booking on our website at Vitaliswellness.life as well. Or you can give us a call on (605) 767-1601.

MELISSA That's amazing. Well, thank you so much, Ashley.

MELISSA Hey, that's our show. If someone came to mind while you were listening to this, if you thought, hey, my sister needs to hear this or I should send this to my mom, or my buddy would get a lot out of this. Please share it with them. Just hit the share button and send it their way. You never know what one conversation, one episode, or one piece of information can do for someone who's been looking for answers.

MELISSA And if you haven't subscribed yet, please do it now. It takes two seconds. It's free and it means you won't miss an episode. We've got incredible stuff coming up and I don't want you to miss any of it. And if you're a health or wellness provider and you want to be on the show, we'd love to hear from you. There's a link in the show notes to get in touch. We're always looking for people doing interesting work. We want to share what they know. And one last thing I get asked all the time about the products and brands I actually use. So I put together a list of sponsors and favorite products that have worked for me and my family. If you're curious that link is in the show notes to thank you for being here. And I really mean that. I'm Melissa Goodwin. The line is open. See you next time.